Sabine Walter, in conversation with ...
Tomislav Bodrozic, Managing Director of the Fabula Games GmbH
Mr Bodrozic, what do you love about your job?
I have a true dream job and so there are so many things I love about it. However, in this conversation I would like to focus on two things that mean the most to me and that motivate me every day: One is that every single request for the development of a serious game is a completely new world. Not only because the content is usually completely new, but also because the methods used to convey the content are changing. That's what makes my job so varied and challenges me continually. I can't (fortunately) just open a drawer and pull out a standard concept when I get a request, but I dive into a new world every time. That is a lot of fun.
The other aspect that means a lot to me is that I contribute a little bit with every project, towards making learning a beautiful and positive experience.
Learning in our society is still too much linked to the institutions of school or university. And so many people, when they have finished school or university, think: "So, now the learning is over. Now I want to work."
Learning is something that can be a lot of fun. And with our work, with our serious games, we make a small contribution to making learning a positive experience again. That is a very nice feeling. And if we also get this feedback from our customers, then that is reward enough.
Besides, my profession compensates a little for my own earlier learning experience. As a child, I never really liked learning. I preferred to play. Today I know that I also learnt a lot from playing, even if maybe not for maths or biology. But working out solutions or strategies, changing perspectives, interacting with others. These are all skills that we need in life. And they can be learned well through play.
This conscious understanding that learning and playing can be combined and be fun wasn't that long ago. Maybe 6-7 years ago. It was triggered by a client for whom we, filmmakers at the time, had already made corporate films. The client really wanted us to create a game on the subject of "compliance and integrity". We didn't want to take on the project at first, because we have never developed a game before. But we dared to do it.
The feedback was fantastic. The staff exchanged views on compliance enthusiastically and much more intensively than had previously taken place through reading PowerPoint presentations or brochures.
And that's when it clicked for me.
How do you manage to turn complex topics and issues into a game and keep the essential points in mind?
I benefit a lot from my 15 years as a filmmaker. There, too, I kept looking at new topics and researching them. And in the course of this research, I delved into the topic more and more deeply. I had to research and know much more than I could later convey in the film. I had to become an expert in order to then be able to decide which small part of it is interesting for the viewer. And this reduction is the great art in film - as in the game. Because it requires me to understand the viewer, or in our case the players or employees who are to use the game, with their questions and needs.
What also helps me is finding it natural to question and enquire about things. That's something that comes "with age", above all. Whereas in my mid-20s I might not have dared to say: "I still don't understand, please explain it to me again", today, it comes easily to my lips.
And if you dare to ask questions until you understand a topic, it is relatively easy to develop a game design together with a team that fits the content. Game design is the functionality and game play that ensures that the learning content is received by the learner.
What parallels are there to what we do, personality development?
There are a lot of things. I have already mentioned some of them. Let me add some more points.
For a game to work really well, it needs at least three aspects. It must firstly engage the players or learners. It must therefore ensure that the players are taken out of their passive role as consumers and motivated to get something, e.g. information. Secondly, intrinsic motivation must be developed. The player has to keep playing because he wants to and not because the boss says he has to play the game. This intrinsic motivation can be aroused in very different ways. The player may want to collect stars, get points, complete the level or is simply curious to know how the story continues.
And the third aspect besides engagement and intrinsic motivation is the will of the player to invest in the game. Only if he invests, for example time, can this game become valuable for him.
That applies to every form of training. If I want to get better, I have to invest. If I do it from within myself, I get more pleasure out of it. And if I'm still actively involved, i.e. with all my senses, then synapses form in my brain, I learn and develop and my personality unfolds.
When do you get the best ideas?
In exchange with others. I get new ideas when I tell others about it. When I speak, I notice that I grasp new aspects of the topic, for example, and enter a more creative (thinking) space where the ideas then emerge.
What is also important for my creativity are conscious pauses for thought. For example, when I'm doing sport, I consciously switch off and don't concern myself with work at all. That way I can get back into it afterwards with a fresh perspective.
What will your profession look like in 2050?
There is a trend that is unstoppable and this is artificial intelligence (AI). Machines process information. So far, they have done this more ineffectively than humans. That will change. In the future, machines will process information more effectively than we humans do. But above all, machines have a characteristic that clearly distinguishes them from us humans: They do not forget. Instead, they store information with every interaction and use it to refine their algorithms.
Against the background that artificial intelligence will improve rapidly, I believe that in the future serious games will become more automated and better adapted to the needs of the players. As we play, the computer learns about our particular idiosyncrasies and patterns and will then try to build an algorithm that responds to that. At the moment, this is still in its infancy.
In 30 years, there will be a large knowledge base and good AI so that players can design their own game ad-hoc. An example: I feel like playing a game that only takes two minutes, where I can juggle language and a funny story emerges at the end. The computer then compiles the content with the game principles in the background and presents me with my personal game in a short time.
My job as a game designer will change as a result. I will be less concerned with the construction of the game and more concerned with understanding the needs of the learners. Perhaps I will need to understand even better than the player what they need to learn and develop.
What would change in our society if we played more?
I am convinced that we would gain in acceptance and tolerance. Because everyone who plays games learns and understands at some point that they don't know everything yet. There is always more to discover, there is always someone who has perhaps already discovered parts of it or can pack even more content into a game because they are a bit more of an expert.
I become a little more humble when I deal with experts and realise what they can do. And this attitude that through playing you experience how you develop yourself and at the same time see how others develop, that leads to more tolerance towards others.
At the same time, there would certainly be people in our society who would fear losing productivity. But when we play educational games, serious games, I don't see the risk. And that is ultimately also shown by the current development. More and more companies understand that serious games help to awaken the desire to learn, to anchor content and to develop competencies.
How would our understanding of learning have to change by the year 2050?
That is an interesting question. Maybe by 2050 it will be the case that we all have even more of a chance to engage in things that we really enjoy and are our strengths. 200 years ago, people had to plough the fields themselves because there were no machines to do it. Today there are machines for that. In the future, robots will take over such and other existential tasks that we humans do not enjoy very much. This will give us all more time to develop our own strengths.
Today, we see learning as a prerequisite for later pursuing a qualified job. In my view, this connection will increasingly dissolve. In the future, people will learn the things they are interested in. They will thus become an expert in a much shorter time and contribute to everyone benefiting from this expertise.
Tomislav Bodrozic is a qualified psychologist. With his team of Fabula Games GmbH he develops so-called serious games, i.e. learning games for companies that facilitate learning and training.
